TravelTube.com Podcast
Dude Ranch Vacations with Sally Black, True Ranch Collection
MARK MURPHY
Hi, I'm Mark Murphy with TravelTube.com, and this week I have a very interesting interview. Dude ranch vacations were a novelty years ago, but they've grown into something much bigger. I'm joined by Sally Black from True Ranch Collection. Sally, tell us exactly what you do and what these experiences are like.
SALLY BLACK
Thanks so much for having me, Mark. I'm excited to talk about dude ranching vacations, because I truly believe we are the best-kept secret in the travel industry. True Ranch Collection is a mom-and-pop organization — currently a collection of six dude ranches: four in Arizona, one in Wyoming just outside Yellowstone National Park, and one more. Our mission is to save Western hospitality. Four of our ranches are celebrating 100 years of welcoming guests this year, and another is celebrating 60. We've been around a long time, and we're looking forward to bringing great vacation experiences into the next century.
MARK MURPHY
That sounds amazing. You have a great-looking website and you mention a pop-up ranch — what's that?
SALLY BLACK
The pop-up ranch is a new category we've developed. What we're trying to do is save ranches with amazing histories, so we work with a variety of partners — individuals with existing properties, the National Forest Service, the National Park Service — and we also own some outright. When we're starting operations with a new partner, we call it a pop-up ranch: we come in, dust off the cobwebs, get it operational, and see how it performs. Our first pop-up was Blackwater Creek, which is now a permanent part of our collection. We worked with the National Forest Service, exceeded our sales goals in year one, blew them out again in year two, and by year three the National Park Service granted us a 20-year lease. So that's what a pop-up ranch is — a launch phase. Right now we have six ranches, with Otero making it roughly six and a half. But our big plan — with the help of the travel agent community, and I've been an agency owner myself for 25 years — is to grow the collection to 30 properties within the next 10 years and put them in land trust so they can't be developed, preserving that Western experience for future generations.
MARK MURPHY
That's a wonderful mission. What's been the response from the travel agent community?
SALLY BLACK
Honestly, it's been overwhelming. We're a mom-and-pop operation without a big marketing budget, so a lot of it is personal outreach to agents I've known over the years. But once they understand the product, they love selling it — because it's a great product they can put their trust in, and it makes them look like a hero to their clients. Russell True, my boss — I call him the King of the Cowboys — is chairman of the Dude Ranchers Association. He grew up at White Stallion Ranch, which his parents bought in 1965, and he is extremely hands-on. When agents send clients out to the ranch, you'll see Russell walking around with three walkie-talkies, shoeing horses, and flipping pancakes in the morning. He actually called me while wrangling cattle to tell me he didn't understand why travel agents, who once accounted for 40% of his business back when his parents ran the ranch, had dropped to zero. That's why I'm here. As the national BDM, I cover the entire country and help agents bridge the gap — holding their hands through their first bookings, because the product is a little quirky. But once they get the hang of it, they love it.
MARK MURPHY
Tell me about your recent fam trip.
SALLY BLACK
I had 30 agents come out to White Stallion Ranch in January, and agents set a very high bar — they travel everywhere and have a great frame of reference for comparison. On the last day, one very experienced agent told me, 'We were all talking before breakfast, trying to figure out what was wrong with this fam. The only thing we could come up with was that we'd really like bath sheets instead of bath towels.' That's an easy fix, and I'll take that as a win.
MARK MURPHY
Here's the big question: out of those 30 agents, how many have actually made bookings since then?
SALLY BLACK
From that one fam, I've gotten seven groups booked so far with a couple more in the works. Three or four agents have made personal bookings using our agent rates — we offer 20% to 50% off depending on the time of year. One agent decided to specialize in ranch travel entirely. He loved it so much that we did a horse show together in Harrisburg, PA, and within a week he sold a $20,000 multi-generational booking. Agents know what they're doing — once they understand this product, they will sell it every single day.
MARK MURPHY
What do agents need to know to sell it successfully?
SALLY BLACK
First, I tell agents to think of this as a domestic all-inclusive product — because it pretty much is. The one difference is that alcohol isn't included. A 1,200-pound animal and an intoxicated rider is a recipe for disaster, and quite frankly, people who come to ranches aren't the sit-by-the-pool-and-day-drink crowd. The other difference is that we don't have a structured kids program. Our philosophy is that families build memories together: kids under five are free, kids over five can join trail rides, and our wranglers coordinate with parents to make sure everyone is comfortable. But framing it as all-inclusive is helpful for agents because they already know how to sell and position that concept domestically — especially for families without passports who want a one-price-fits-all vacation. The experience itself is actually more like summer camp than a resort: everyone eats together family-style, does the same activities, and rides horses together. There's a tremendous sense of camaraderie, and guests form friendships and come back year after year. Our return rate is around 68%.
MARK MURPHY
68% is off the charts. Do they come back with new people, or is it the same couples?
SALLY BLACK
All of the above. And here's something agents will appreciate: we offer a returning guest commission. Similar to a future cruise desk, when a guest checks out, we offer them a return discount. If they take us up on it, the booking agent automatically earns commission — money for nothing, essentially, and it continues indefinitely with that client. We also book up to a year and ten days out — the ten days gives returning guests a window to rebook before we open to new clients. That's important because some of my ranches are small: my smallest hosts 25 guests, my largest 100. They're wonderful for multi-gen trips, family reunions, corporate retreats, and girlfriend getaways, and a full buyout is very doable — but we need to plan about a year in advance, because we will never displace a returning guest for a group buyout. Russell put that rule in place, and I personally think it's the right call.
MARK MURPHY
Any quirks to the booking process agents should know about?
SALLY BLACK
Yes — many of our smaller ranches have set check-in days. We run six-night and three-night stays, because our staff lives on property and our horses need a day off too. Check-in is typically Sunday, with Wednesday for three-night turnarounds, and everyone departs by Saturday morning. I just tell agents to lean on me and our reservations team. We're very hands-on and happy to walk first-time bookers through the process.
MARK MURPHY
It doesn't sound that complicated. What about matching the right client to the right ranch?
SALLY BLACK
That's the art of it. Every one of our ranches has its own personality — it's like asking which of your kids you love best. Matchmaking clients to the right ranch can be nuanced. What activities are most important to them? Are they experienced riders, or have they never been on a horse? We can accommodate everything in between. I have guests who have been coming for 25 years and never once gotten on a horse — I think they come for the cowboys, but that's another story. We have national rodeo champions vacationing with us and true beginners learning to ride. Horseback riding lessons run about $25 an hour, which is remarkable value. I've seen families budget for extra lesson time with our wranglers, arrive not knowing how to mount a horse, and by Friday they're trotting or loping in the corral. It's really something to watch.
MARK MURPHY
That makes me think about corporate team building — you must be great for that.
SALLY BLACK
Absolutely. Many of our ranches have meeting space for smaller gatherings — not a thousand-person conference, but perfect for team building, training, bachelorette and bachelor parties, family reunions, and corporate retreats. And we try not to be one-size-fits-all. If a corporate group wants to ride once a day instead of twice and hold morning meetings with afternoon activities, we work with the group leaders and agents to understand the needs and price it accordingly. If you're not using all the activities on offer, we're not going to charge you for them.
MARK MURPHY
What's a typical price range for a larger group on a six-night stay?
SALLY BLACK
It varies by season and ranch, but let me give you a sense of the range. Our most expensive ranch is Blackwater Creek, which sells out by Thanksgiving for the following season — and for good reason. It sits ten miles from the east entrance of Yellowstone. Russell watched closely in the early years to see what guests were consistently adding as excursions, and then just built them all in. So in addition to the all-inclusive base — accommodations, meals, twice-daily horseback riding, fly fishing, shooting, and archery — that ranch includes round-trip airport transfers on a six-night stay, a whitewater rafting excursion, tickets and transportation to the Cody Stampede Rodeo, and a full-day private guided Yellowstone tour with our naturalist. All of that prices out around $3,500–$3,600 per person. Compared to an escorted tour or an Alaska cruise, I think that's exceptional value. On the other end of the spectrum, White Stallion Ranch in Arizona in the summer — which is low season because of the heat — runs around $1,800 per person, all-inclusive, with the most activities for kids of any ranch we have. And on the heat: we watch the forecast closely. If temperatures are heading into triple digits, we shift the schedule — morning breakfast ride, back to the ranch by 9:30 when it's still around 85 degrees, then pool and spa time, then a twilight ride in the mountains in the evening, with dinner pushed back. It's honestly no hotter than standing in line at Disney World in August in Orlando's humidity. I'd take dry Arizona heat every time.
MARK MURPHY
You nailed it — I'm in Fort Lauderdale. Orlando summers are brutal. And as far as value for families, Disney park tickets alone run $110 to $219 per person per day, and that's before hotel, food, or travel. The all-inclusive ranch price looks incredible by comparison.
SALLY BLACK
Exactly. And one thing I love to observe at the ranch: teenagers arrive glued to their phones, barely acknowledging anyone. Within two days, the same kid is holding doors open and saying good morning. We have kids playing board games in the lodge, running around outside just being kids. The transformation you see in people over just a few days is remarkable. It pulls everyone away from their devices and back into real life.
MARK MURPHY
Travel is all about experiences, and dude ranching — which I'll confess is still on my bucket list — clearly delivers. That 68% return rate tells the whole story.
SALLY BLACK
We'll get you out there, Mark. And when you do, you'll understand immediately. Part of what makes people come back is the community. I went to Arizona for meetings once, woke up early due to jet lag, and went down to the cantina for coffee. Russell was already on his second thermos after three hours in the barn. He introduced me to Maria, a travel agent from London who comes to the ranch twice a year for two weeks — because it's cheaper than keeping a horse in London. She rides the same horse she's been riding for 25 years, and over time she's built a group of solo travelers who come at the same time each year with the same riding ability. They've become a community. That's what makes a ranch magical. Solo travelers can be a real challenge to place as an agent, but at a ranch, strangers sit down for breakfast and within two days know each other by name. One agent on my last fam told me it was the only property she'd ever been to where, within two days, she knew the name of virtually every guest.
MARK MURPHY
That's remarkable. You also mentioned this is a big year for the industry.
SALLY BLACK
It is. Four of my ranches are celebrating 100 years, and the Dude Ranchers Association itself — based in Cody, Wyoming — is also celebrating its centennial this year. Russell is chairman of the DRA. They partnered with PBS Wyoming on a documentary called 'Call of the West,' which is an hour-long program about the history and future of dude ranching. It's on YouTube. It highlights seven ranches, including White Stallion with Russell, and interviews guests about why they come and what keeps them coming back. I always recommend agents watch it before their first ranch booking — if you listen to what the guests are saying and reverse-engineer it, it will teach you exactly how to sell this product without ever having set foot on a ranch.
MARK MURPHY
Wonderful. What about demographics — what percentage of bookings are individual travelers or couples versus families?
SALLY BLACK
We are genuinely across the board. Russell says women keep his ranch running because of that special connection between girls and horses. Solo travelers range from their mid-20s all the way up — on my last trail ride, there was a woman behind me who was 94 years old. Her son confirmed it at the ranch afterward. We welcome couples, girlfriend getaways, yoga groups, health and wellness groups, equestrian groups — dressage riders who want to experience Western riding, horse Reiki enthusiasts, you name it. The vibe is welcoming enough that it really works for just about anyone. And one more exciting development on the kids side: up at our Circle Bar ranch in Big Sky, Montana, we're piloting a horsemanship program this year — Buckaroo Camp, I think it's called, though don't hold me to the exact name. It's not a babysitting program; it's about teaching kids how to care for horses, how to saddle and bridle them, how to act around them. The idea is that instead of the bell ringing once for breakfast, we ring it early so kids can go down and feed the horses first. I'd honestly love to see that extended to adults too — learning those horsemanship fundamentals before you ever get in the saddle is invaluable.
MARK MURPHY
You mentioned a guest from London — I imagine international visitors have a real fascination with American Western culture.
SALLY BLACK
You nailed it. At White Stallion Ranch, Russell flies the American flag, and surrounding it he puts up the international flags of every country represented by guests that week. We celebrate that. People from all over the world come to the American West and want to experience the culture authentically — and a dude ranch is exactly that. If you're coming to the U.S. for an extended trip, a ranch stay has to be part of it.
MARK MURPHY
Unfortunately we lost Sally's connection at the end there, but what an incredible conversation. A few key takeaways: if you're a travel agent, True Ranch Collection pays 10% commission, offers 20–50% off agent rates, and even provides a perpetual returning-guest commission. If you're a consumer, this is a genuine bucket list experience — all-inclusive, domestic, suitable for every age and skill level, and remarkably priced. Work with a travel professional to find the right ranch for your family. They'll do all the work, and it won't cost you any more. Follow us at TravelTube.com for our newsletter, on your favorite podcast platform, and on social media. Have a great week, and I'll see you next time.
